Writing, belonging and finding your voice

Mehreen Arshi speaks with presenters Samina, Ayesha and Mashal on Canberra's CMS FM 91.1 Urdu Program about migration, culture, reading and the path from scientific research to fiction.

Interviewers: Samina, Ayesha and Mashal.

Translation note: This page presents the English translation of selected complete questions and answers from an Urdu-language radio interview. The translation preserves the substance and sequence of the conversation. Punctuation and paragraph breaks have been standardised for readability, and presenter interjections are retained where they form part of the exchange. Timestamps refer to the original CMS FM recording.

The journey from Pakistan to Australia

Question (CMS FM presenter): We have prepared a series of questions, and for the first one we would like to ask you to tell us something about yourself. How did you come from Pakistan to Australia, what was that journey like, and what else would you tell us about it?

Answer (Mehreen): The journey of coming to Australia has now become quite a long and old one for us. My parents actually migrated here in the late nineties for better opportunities. We have been here since then.

My very first memory of coming to Australia is the airport. When we got off the plane and entered the terminal, I felt as if we had arrived in a black-and-white show. One thing that strikes you immediately is the silence, and the other is the colour. It felt as though the colour had been stripped from everything, because we came from such a colourful environment in Pakistan. I still remember that feeling.

After that, my first exposure to the culture here was school. School was a very different environment for me because, as you know, in Pakistan you have a particular relationship with teachers, one of respect and a certain decorum. That exists here, but not in every school, especially public schools. It felt very strange to me that the teacher could be teaching in class while you were busy talking to your friends, or that some girls might even be doing their make-up. I went to a girls' school. At first I found that astonishing. I thought, the environment here is completely different. Those were, sort of, my initial impressions of Australian life and my exposure to the culture.

Once you settle into school life and student life, however, you also discover that there are many opportunities here. For example, between the ages of sixteen and twenty, people in Pakistan, especially girls, do not have as many opportunities to go out and work in a safe environment. There is often a very tubular pathway: school, college, then a job or marriage, and after that your life either begins or ends, who knows? That made me feel that there was a great deal of opportunity here and, secondly, that the environment was safe.

I participated in that too. I worked in fast food, which was very exciting for me. It gives you responsibility and also a little empathy for how hard people work and how difficult it is to do all of this.

Another thing I would like to share is that the Sydney Olympics were taking place in 2000. My father volunteered in arranging things. Afterwards, he was given two tickets to attend the Olympics opening ceremony. My younger sister and I went. It was such a large arena, and this was something we normally watched on television, yet now we were participating in it ourselves. It was very exciting. It also gave me some sense that the concept of equal opportunity was very good here, that everything was accessible and that there was no gatekeeping.

That was my journey during the first three or four years. After that I went to New South Wales Uni, where I studied medical sciences. Later in life I completed a Masters in Philosophy through research in neuroscience. That is my background, in scientific research and study.

Source: 09:30 to 12:55

What makes Pakistani culture distinctive?

Question (CMS FM presenter): You were just speaking so beautifully about Pakistani culture, about moving from that culture into this one. You now write, and your writing also concerns those ideas. In your view, what is the most distinctive quality of Pakistani culture and civilisation? In this present age of globalisation, how can we preserve its identity?

Answer (Mehreen): Look, every person experiences culture in a different way. For one person culture is clothing, for another it is food, and someone else explores it through language, music or art. I think all of these things come together to make culture.

Interviewer, during the answer: Exactly. I agree. Yeah.

Mehreen: Then, within Pakistani culture, we have kinship and community connections. As happens among us, we know our neighbours and the people around us. There is no filter about whether we should speak to this person or not. Everyone is open to conversation. Many things stem from our values and beliefs. We are expected to care for and respect our elders. We practise philanthropy, what we call social service, and help other people. It is a built-in trait. It really is a built-in trait.

As people say, every place has good and bad qualities. These values create many of our good qualities, our values and beliefs. I think these things are very important to us, and together they make our culture distinctive.

Living here, we may not have family and so on around us, but we do have a circle of friends. I think that, if we practise these same things with them, they will keep our values alive.

Interviewer, during the answer: Absolutely. We also need to teach children what our values are and how they can carry them forward and transfer them.

Mehreen: Following what you have said, I would like to share a comment from an Australian. When I had first arrived, they told me, "The people in your community are extra helpful. Whenever help is needed, they are the first to come forward." That is what they had observed about our community. I liked it very much and thought I should share it so that our people would be happy to hear it.

Source: 12:57 to 15:12

What do stories do beyond entertainment?

Question (CMS FM presenter): Do you think stories are simply a means of entertainment, or do they also play an important role in understanding identity, thought and the lives of others? We lose ourselves in characters. Could you expand on that?

Answer (Mehreen): Absolutely. On the surface, we may feel that stories are entertainment, something enjoyable for us, an escape in which we read about something else and move a little distance away from our own lives. That is one part of it.

But I think writers, and any form of creative expression, also have another role. As people, there are many things going through our minds, but we cannot necessarily express or verbalise every one of them. I think a story is also a means of doing that.

In addition, I feel that the stories we write or read are an image, or reflection, of every society and every period. They capture it. For example, if you wanted to learn about the 1950s or the 1800s, you could read magazines and newspapers and discover what was happening. But a writer captures why and how it was happening. In that way, I would not only say that you capture historical events. The history of our civilisation is also being captured.

Secondly, as you were saying about understanding, a writer offers many psychological insights. Stories show us what human psychology is like, how we make decisions and how we behave towards one another.

There is another thing. We do not necessarily find role models in our lives all the time. I see that sometimes we find our role models in stories.

Interviewer, during the answer: We relate to them.

Mehreen: Exactly. We look for relatability, for what we can relate to and what resonates with us.

Another thing I like very much is that culture is not accessible to everyone. Not everybody can travel or visit every place. A story is a very good medium through which you can travel the whole world. You understand and absorb other cultures, and your awareness and exposure grow while you remain where you are. Stories have many purposes and many dimensions.

Source: 15:13 to 17:43

Why does the first step matter?

Question (CMS FM presenter): Mehreen, we are having such an enjoyable conversation. People say writers are very sensitive, that they feel things around them and then write about them. Has anything ever happened around you that had a strong effect on your thinking, and did you then write about it?

Answer (Mehreen): So far, I think this is gradually entering my writing, and it will also appear in my second manuscript. But there is one experience I would like to share. When I was at university, I went on a student exchange.

At the time I was simply looking for a way to go and study somewhere else. Although we were already in Australia, I felt that a person should go somewhere else to study and explore another place. At that time, there was nobody around us who had experience of a student exchange or had done one. I went and found all the information, learned everything I could, filled in the forms and completed the whole process. I had no idea whether I would be approved, but it was approved, and I happily went.

When I arrived there on the first day, I had gone to the UK to study in Nottingham for five months. When I got off the plane, I suddenly felt such intense loneliness. I was completely alone there. The next day a bus came to collect us. After we arrived, I sat in my room thinking, what have I done?

Then I heard the voices of people outside, chatting and talking to each other. At that moment I realised something that, I think, has had a great impact on many of my decisions in life. I thought that, if I did not leave that room, I would simply remain sad there. I would not learn anything else, I would not overcome my homesickness, and I would remain sitting there in my sorrow.

I went outside, joined student societies and spoke with people. That day I realised that you do not know what result an action will produce. But if you do not take that step, you will not change anything. The first step is very important.

Interviewer, during the answer: Otherwise, you will never discover what might happen, or what the benefits and disadvantages could be.

Mehreen: Exactly. I feel that, if you do not ask, the answer is always no. If you do not take a chance, the probability is always zero. No path will open and no changes will come into your life.

For me, this was a very important moment. Whenever I approach something, I often think: what is the worst that's going to happen? The answer might be no, but it might also be yes, or another path might appear. That is the experience I would name.

Interviewer, after the answer: Positive thinking. It is about taking a chance and taking that step.

Source: 17:45 to 20:36

Writing rituals and creative blocks

Question (CMS FM presenter): The weather is so lovely and it is raining, which has given me a question. When you sit down to write, what ritual or habit do you carry with you? Do you drink coffee or tea, play music, or write in complete silence?

Answer (Mehreen): Complete silence is very difficult to find these days. I have two things, one for when I am writing and one for when I am not writing. I follow both habits.

First, when I am writing, I always keep headphones with me. The benefit of headphones is that, when I enter writing mode, whether I am in a café, at home or in a library, I am listening to something. It may be instrumental music or a song. But when I put on my headphones, I feel detached. Whatever is happening around me no longer has anything to do with me. Now I am writing.

When I cannot write, or something in the writing feels dissatisfying and I think, no, this is not right, I used to become very overwhelmed. I would wonder why I could not write and when I would be able to write. Now I tell myself that it is all right. I have to go through this process.

To get through it, I read things that inspire me, or authors whose writing style I like. I feel that my own story is still in the back of my mind, simmering on the back burner. The ideas are flowing from somewhere while I am reading something else.

I think these are the two habits I follow quite strictly. But I am not caffeine-dependent. Tea, coffee.

Interviewer, after the answer: That is a very good habit.

Source: 24:23 to 26:03

Home and belonging

Question (CMS FM presenter): You have lived outside Pakistan and travelled around the world. How has that experience changed your idea of home and belonging? When you are away from Pakistan, which memories or things make you miss home most strongly?

Answer (Mehreen): The concept of belonging is quite complex because our relationship is with both the land and the people. If you imagine a place, its environment is made by the people walking, moving and speaking there, by how they sit and stand, and by what they wear. All of these things come together to create our environment. When you leave that place and move somewhere new, all of these things become different. Your sense of belonging is inevitably challenged. But as you begin to interact with the new environment, you also begin to develop a sense of belonging there, little by little.

I think you can understand belonging through the image of a plant. A plant is rooted in one place, but after some time you cut its branches and plant it somewhere else. You may continue to grow in the new environment. You will either adapt or you will shrivel. Something will happen to you. You will inevitably react. But you cannot erase your initial roots, and nor should we erase them. So I think that is the concept of belonging for me, a relationship to land and to people.

And the second thing you were asking, globally, what was your question?

Interviewer, during the answer: How has your idea of home and belonging changed, and what do you miss most when you are away from Pakistan? Often, girls especially miss the clothes, shopping and markets.

Mehreen: One thing in Pakistan that I really enjoy is going into a clothing shop and smelling the new fabric. I like that scent very much.

Another important thing is identity. When we are here, even if nobody asks or says anything, there is always something in our minds: where are you from? Are you from India? Are you from the Philippines? What is your background? As soon as you land at the airport in Pakistan, that disappears. The connection is very spontaneous. I think I miss that very much. I miss it while I am here and enjoy it when I am there.

Source: 26:05 to 28:33

From scientific research to fiction

Question (CMS FM presenter): Mehreen, I would like to ask a question because you have told us that you also have experience in research. What first drew you towards writing? When you sit down to write, does the story come first or do the characters form first? Please tell us about that.

Answer (Mehreen): I have loved reading, reading stories and reading books since childhood. You know those long summer afternoons in Pakistan, when everybody would go to sleep for two hours? There was no chance of me sleeping. I would always be reading a book at that time.

There were also cassette stories in my childhood. I still remember Jack and the Beanstalk in Urdu, narrated in Qazi Wajid's voice, and the hen that laid the golden egg. I can still play them in my head.

I had always loved reading. When we arrived here, I studied English as a subject in Years 10, 11 and 12. The way it was taught here was completely different compared with Pakistan. Compared with the way English is taught in Pakistan, there was more literary analysis here and we looked at texts with a critical eye. I enjoyed that very much. I think I naturally had a little knack for breaking things down, for asking how somebody had written something and achieved a particular effect. I enjoyed that greatly during my HSC.

But, you know, from childhood we often have a mindset, especially in earlier times, that this is the work you are supposed to do. So I moved towards medical sciences. There were voices in the background continually saying, this is what you must do.

Interviewer, during the answer: Yes, absolutely. Those voices in the background are always there.

Mehreen: They are continuous. Because of them, we do not look around or to the side to consider what else we might do. And, as you know, with the fine arts people always say, "You can't make a living out of it," which is very true. First, you need something through which you can establish yourself.

I will fast-forward to COVID. By the time COVID arrived, we had moved from Sydney to Canberra. In 2019 I had taken a break from my medical science career. I thought I would return when my daughter started kindy. Then COVID arrived, everybody remained at home and our social interactions ended. I think the voices of the characters in my head became louder. A story came out of that period.

You also asked whether the characters or the story come first. I am now writing my second manuscript, and both times the same thing has happened. I never had the story from beginning to end. In both cases it has always begun with a character. There is a character, a conflict, a problem and one or two scenes. The story begins with those things. The whole world of the story starts from there, and you build the story around it.

After that, the characters become so strong that you are simply writing while they tell the story. I like that because, by then, your characters have become so solid that they will tell you their own story: what they are doing and how their lives are unfolding, instead of us dictating it. I enjoy that process very much.

Source: 34:49 to 38:17

Pakistan, diaspora and the purpose of writing

Question (CMS FM presenter): How visible is the influence of Pakistan's background in your writing? How could a reader recognise that the writer is Pakistani-based or has a connection with Pakistan? If you had to describe the fundamental purpose of your writing in one sentence, what would it be? Sorry, I have combined two questions. How does Pakistan's influence appear, and do you think it does? Secondly, how would you describe the purpose of your stories in one sentence?

Answer (Mehreen): The influence of Pakistan in my stories is completely dominant because I write cultural stories. There is a writer, Anne Lamott, who wrote a book called Bird by Bird. She wrote that, if you are looking for stories to write, you should first look at your childhood. The memories of childhood and your formative years, the environment and the things you observed, remain very sharp. I think we recall them better compared with our more recent years.

The same is true for me. I spent my first fourteen or fifteen years in Pakistan. The community there, our environment, everything around us and our social values are where my stories emerge. Their foundation comes from what we saw, heard and experienced there.

You also asked how I would describe the connection and the purpose of my stories in one sentence. There are many diaspora communities here that do not understand our values, especially people who have spent a great deal of time overseas. I think I write for them, so that they can connect with their culture and understand the previous generations and their way of thinking.

Secondly, I think Pakistan is a little underrepresented on the global platform and in written media. I can play my part in its global representation through the written medium. That is also the purpose of my writing.

Source: 38:21 to 40:30

Advice to her eighteen-year-old self

Question (CMS FM presenter): So much time has passed. If the Mehreen of today could give advice to the eighteen-year-old Mehreen, what would she say?

Answer (Mehreen): The eighteen-year-old Mehreen was something else entirely, completely different. I think that is a very tricky age for everybody. It was for me too, with many challenges, especially after moving here from another culture.

Looking back now, I feel that after arriving here we did not question anything because our only focus was to assimilate into the culture. In doing that, you often do not allow the uniqueness of your personality to appear. You fit yourself into a mould, a social mould. You think, I should not even give my opinion because what will the other person think? There is peer pressure. I am already brown and already come from a different culture, so perhaps it is better if I do not speak.

I would tell the eighteen-year-old Mehreen not to worry so much about what other people think. Express your own opinion and say what is going through your mind. I think there is a great need to use your voice.

Source: 40:51 to 41:53

One idea to take away

Question (CMS FM presenter): Finally, Mehreen, if you wanted listeners to take just one idea or one feeling away from this conversation, what would it be?

Answer (Mehreen): For the listeners, I think the thing I have also learned from my own journey is not to underestimate personal growth. Do not think that, because you have reached somewhere and accomplished something, it is an end stage.

I think our personal growth and our way of doing things should remain in continuous growth, and we should always continue learning. In my view, downfall begins when our perspectives start to close. When that happens, we can neither accept another person's perspective nor tolerate disagreement with our own opinion.

I think it is therefore very important to consider how we can make ourselves better than we were the previous day.

Source: 47:45 to 48:47

A language note: ghairat

Question (CMS FM presenter): Let me ask you another question. Is there a word in Urdu, or another Pakistani language, that cannot be translated completely into another language? Often we think in Urdu and then translate it when communicating in a second language. Have you ever felt that a particular Urdu word, or a word from another language, has no translation through another word in another language?

Answer (Mehreen): There are many. This is a very difficult question.

Interviewer, during the answer: Sorry.

Mehreen: There are many words that exist in English and whose Urdu meaning does not come to mind, and words in Urdu whose English meaning does not come to mind. Or the complete spirit of the meaning is not captured exactly.

One such word is ghairat. I think it is very difficult to encapsulate its meaning completely because personal perspective enters strongly into its meaning, and every person measures it according to their own standard. I think it is one of those words that is very difficult to translate.

Source: 51:14 to 52:29

Books and writers mentioned

• One Hundred Years of Solitude by Gabriel García Márquez
• The Lord of the Rings by J. R. R. Tolkien
• Bird by Bird by Anne Lamott
• Urdu Ki Aakhri Kitab by Ibn-e-Insha
• Saadat Hasan Manto
• Arundhati Roy
• Charlotte Wood
• The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle
• Atomic Habits by James Clear